<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1425</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/2/99 12:03:23 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, December 2 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1425<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Bribery Skill<BR>
Re: Re : Police Career (actually the Bomb Squad)<BR>
MING STRIKES BACK!<BR>
ping...maybe<BR>
Re:the perils of television<BR>
Re: Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Machinery (was Re: Sci fifilms)<BR>
Re: Different Technologies<BR>
Re: Different Technologies<BR>
Re: Different Technologies<BR>
Re: Bribery Skill<BR>
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Re: Police ranks<BR>
Re: Different Technologies<BR>
power generation technologies<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 23:51:08 -0600<BR>
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Bribery Skill<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Bribery is knowing the fine details of how much and the particulars of<BR>
> bribing someone, as Doug says.<BR>
><BR>
> Streetwise will tell you to walk into a congresscritters office with a<BR>
> briefcase of cash.<BR>
><BR>
> Bribery will tell you to walk in with an appropriately laundered check<BR>
> made out to his re-election committee, or better yet, his favorite<BR>
> PAC...<BR>
><BR>
> Streetwise leans heavily towards the folded ten in the palm.<BR>
><BR>
> Bribery is a delicately dropped insider tip.<BR>
><BR>
> Bribery, at it's best, and as a skill, consists of the art of paying<BR>
> someone off while simultaneouosly offering them plausible deniability.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Maybe I'm missing something here but everything you describe as bribery is very<BR>
basic common sense to everyone I know. If  I have Streetwise I would know the who,<BR>
what, when, where and what of bribery. I can't see any clear and convincing reason<BR>
for bribery to be a unique skill.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 21:28:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : Police Career (actually the Bomb Squad)<BR>
<BR>
In mail, traveller@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> I wrote :-<BR>
>> Remember that you'd have to ramp up decay rates by a factor of at least<BR>
>> a million times to get a significant radiation release (so the occupants<BR>
>> would warm a little as their K-40 decayed, though not as much as when<BR>
>> the walls got 'hot').<BR>
><BR>
> Oops! I seem to have caught a dose of the 'constant inflation' that has<BR>
> appeared on the list.<BR>
><BR>
> If we posit a whole body dose of 100 rem as that which will cause acute<BR>
> radiation sickness in 50% of humans, then decay rates need to be<BR>
> increased by between 1000 to 10000 times. Granite would tend to contain<BR>
> more of the relevant isotopes, so would require less acceleration.<BR>
<BR>
And for even *faster* effects, present various functionaries with<BR>
paperweights of this really *beautiful* yellow crystalline rock<BR>
(Autunite). It's *loaded* with uranium and daughter isotopes. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 22:13:39 -0800<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: MING STRIKES BACK!<BR>
<BR>
On December 18th, the Bay Area Traveller Gamers are having their second<BR>
meet at 11:00 a.m.  I'm hosting it in my game room in San Jose, CA.<BR>
<BR>
The Fifth Frontier War continues--Mongo was devastated.  What will the<BR>
Zhodani do next?  A new game of 5FW will also start.<BR>
<BR>
Email travellerne@3rd-imperium.com for directions.  All interested<BR>
parties are welcome.<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 22:14:59 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: ping...maybe<BR>
<BR>
Well, now that 99% of my work for "Starports" is done finally, we'll see if<BR>
I can't get Pacific Bell to keep my TML subscription.<BR>
<BR>
For those that haven't checked my page in awhile, looks like the final tally<BR>
was front cover, back cover, and SIXTY-ONE (now) submitted interior<BR>
pictures.  Ugh.  Glad that's over.  I'm not entirely happy with some of the<BR>
big station surfacing, but I just didn't have the time to keep playing with<BR>
'em.<BR>
<BR>
Next up is work on "Navy", which according to the playtest has 17 ship types<BR>
(not including the 18th that's a Rev2 of one of the others) that I haven't<BR>
done yet.  >sigh<  Back to the grindstone shortly.  The good news is that<BR>
those of you yearning for a Tigress or AHL will finally have your wish =D<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:26:17 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re:the perils of television<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Glenn said:<BR>
>Lots of people go to law school and<BR>
>medical school thinking they'll soon have lots of<BR>
>money, nice cars, fascinating professional problems<BR>
>that get solved in an hour or two, and lots of<BR>
>attractive sex partners. ...now that I write the list<BR>
>down, my experience of one out of four still ain't<BR>
>bad.<BR>
<BR>
Glad to hear you have a nice car!<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 02:01:06 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Machinery (was Re: Sci fifilms)<BR>
<BR>
At 06:53 PM 11/30/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>From: Eris reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>> Okay, admit it...how many of you whack the TV/radio/etc with the<BR>
palm<BR>
>> of your hand to "encourage" the darn thing to work?<BR>
><BR>
>The screen on my old monitor would go red from time to time.<BR>
Slapping it<BR>
>actually fixed it. More frequently than not, when dealing with<BR>
electronics,<BR>
>I cajole and / or curse instead of smash.<BR>
<BR>
	My second PC (a screamin' 8MHz 286) was used; the hard drive had<BR>
worn bearings or something, and *wouldn't* start up unless I kicked<BR>
the case as I turned the power on. Hence booting up ...<BR>
<BR>
- -- Friends will help you move. Good friends <BR>
   will help you move a body.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:50:12 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com> who wrote:<BR>
>> One fundamental reason that everyone uses the same technology is that the<BR>
>> laws of physics are the same for all players.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Engineering is an exercise in constrained optimization, with the<BR>
>> constraints being physics, economics, etc, so the engineering solutions to<BR>
>> problems will be similar, given that the constraints are similar. It seems<BR>
> that<BR>
>> economics does not vary significantly across the Traveller universe, so<BR>
>> with the same laws of physics we should not be too surprised to find<BR>
> similar<BR>
>> (note that I said *similar* but not *identical*) technology.<BR>
><BR>
> I agree, but we also know that many roads can get you to the same<BR>
> destination.  ForEx. look at the many different types of power generation<BR>
> plants in the world.  Gas, coal, nuke, solar, wind, etc... they are all<BR>
> optimized (the best they can be at existing technology) for their function.<BR>
> However they all still provide power.  That doesn't answer my question of<BR>
> how the different races all developed the same solution to the engineering<BR>
> problem produced by space travel.<BR>
<BR>
Sure it does. Almost all those power plants you listed work *exactly*<BR>
the same way. They convert rotary motion into electricity by spinning<BR>
coils in a magnetic field (or spinning magnets inside coils, same<BR>
difference). What's different is where they *get* the rotary motion. <BR>
<BR>
Solar is the one exception, and it's *damned* expensive. It directly<BR>
converts light to electricity. <BR>
<BR>
Everything else uses moving fluid to turn blades. Wind generators use<BR>
giant propellors. Hydroelectric uses turbines driven by water flowing<BR>
downhill. Modern gas fired (and a few oil fired?) plants use gas<BR>
turbines, basicly a jet engine with the shaft coupled to the generator.<BR>
The rest use various forms of heat to generate steam, which drives a<BR>
steam turbine. <BR>
<BR>
Fusion (when and if it arrives) will likely be used to generate steam<BR>
as well. But there are a couple types of fusion that *may* be able to<BR>
produce electricity more or less directly. Those will have to be a<BR>
*lot* more expensive to not drive the others out of business. That's<BR>
because they'll both be more *efficient* (ie more of the energy<BR>
produced in the reactor will wind up as *useful* power), and because<BR>
they'll be *far* less complicated. <BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:11:19 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 16:50 -0500 1/12/99, Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>The only situation in which you will have competing technologies <BR>
>>like that is when there are two or more technologies which are <BR>
>>roughly equal, or which one or another group is philosophically <BR>
>>opposed to using.  In many cases, the 'standard' systems are just <BR>
>>plain _better_ than any competing technology.<BR>
><BR>
> Except in the case of Windows <g, d, r> or Betamax.<BR>
<BR>
I guess you didn't know. Betamax *won*....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In Japan, and a number of other countries.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:16:42 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> <Lurk mode off><BR>
><BR>
> This is something I have concitered at times as well. If you look even at<BR>
> earth's history and at the "technological" diversity that some isolated<BR>
> cultures derive, you do come up with "commom denominators" when it comes to<BR>
> tasks.<BR>
<BR>
The "spear thrower" (aka atl-atl, aka woomera) has been invented at<BR>
least three seperate times. Bagpipes have been invented *four* times.<BR>
Ditto for a lot of other things. <BR>
<BR>
> Power Plants: Although the technique may be different, in a traveller<BR>
> universe, there is one fuel above all else that will eventually get looked<BR>
> at - Hydrogen - and thus one type of power plant will get developed -<BR>
> Fusion. Pre fusion technology may end up being very different between any<BR>
> two species, so this could get fairly diverse. ("Hey Pete, what do we do<BR>
> with all these cow droppings?" -- "Toss them in the converter, we have to<BR>
> get to orbit somehow!")<BR>
<BR>
At lower TLs, nuclear power *is* an option for power plants on board<BR>
ships.<BR>
<BR>
> Hulls: It's got to be strong, it's got to be airtight, and it has to resist<BR>
> outside radiation. Thus the material used must be able to form hulls that<BR>
> fit the above rules. If you can get a type of wood to do that, then you<BR>
> have a race that can use wooden hulls. Translate it into traveller<BR>
> compatable hull ratings for YTU and have fun with your players reaction to <BR>
> it.<BR>
<BR>
Well, as an example, if there was a race that was affected by *heavy*<BR>
radiation doses about as much as were are by excessive heat, they'd not<BR>
need much radiation shielding on the ship, and, likewise, they might<BR>
not *bother* with fusion power. After all, since they'd not need all<BR>
that *heavy* shielding, for them a fission reactor might be preferred<BR>
because it's *compact*. <BR>
<BR>
Mind you, they don't get a lot of passengers from other races. :-) <BR>
<BR>
Another possibility would be aliens that are far more sensitive to<BR>
jumpspace than humans. They know about J-space, they just can't *use*<BR>
it. Giving them a different FTL drive might be a problem as far as game<BR>
balance goes. Giving them a manuever drive that lets them get to<BR>
relativistic speeds is even worse. But if they live long enough, they<BR>
can just use normal manuever drives to travel between stars. So what if<BR>
the trip takes 100 years. If you live 5000 years, that's merely<BR>
inconvenient. <BR>
<BR>
But just because aliens have thrusters, jumpdrive, lasers, etc<BR>
*doesn't* mean that the "technologies" are the same. So far we know of<BR>
at least 5 ways to build computers. Mechanical (Babbage engines),<BR>
thermionic (tubes), semiconductors (transistors/ICs), fluidics and<BR>
optical (still being perfected). And that's for *digital* computers.<BR>
<BR>
Consider aliens who prefer to use *analog* computers. Analog computers<BR>
of all the above types are (or should be) available. And they work<BR>
*very* differently.<BR>
<BR>
A digital computer crunches away and returns an answer, to however many<BR>
places. The answers are "exact" within the precision limits. But they<BR>
can also be *very* wrong if you are "outside the range" of the<BR>
algorithm or the program has a bug.<BR>
<BR>
Analog computers return answers *immediately*. That is, entering the<BR>
imput values causes the output to assume the value of the answer. But<BR>
the answer is "fuzzy". That is, the value of the answer depends on how<BR>
closely you can read the scaler that the pointer moves along. <BR>
<BR>
A slide rule is an analog computer. So are the gunnery computers on the<BR>
New Jersey!<BR>
<BR>
Electronic analog computers are mostly based on op amps, not gates. <BR>
<BR>
Analog computers do require "programming, but it's a lot different from<BR>
digital computers.<BR>
<BR>
Aliens using analog computers might actually have *better* "gunnery"<BR>
than the players with their fancy digital computers. But their<BR>
"predict" function might be fairly lousy. Or maybe not. <BR>
<BR>
But both sides would drive themselves nuts trying to get anything<BR>
useful to *their* setup from examining the other guy's setup. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Now consider construction techniques. We bolt things together when we<BR>
may want to take them apart later. What might aliens use? What might be<BR>
"just as good" as screws, nuts and bolts, but *different*? <BR>
<BR>
One possibility I can wrap my head around is some sort of glues. But<BR>
that doesn't mean there aren't others. One I just remembered from some<BR>
SF story  is fasteners based on magnostriction. Basicly the "bolt" is a<BR>
simple rod inserted into the holes in the parts to be joined. When you<BR>
remove the tool that you used to insert it, the rod *expands* enough to<BR>
be about as immovable as a nut and bolt. Why, because it's an alloy<BR>
sensitive to magnetic fields, and the tool was magnetized. Though there<BR>
are better ways to use this sort of metal to fasten things. <BR>
<BR>
Picture the PC's poor engineer trying to figure out how to open up<BR>
pieces of a equipment on the alien ship the players are trying to<BR>
salvage. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Same *function*, different methods.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 02:07:44 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Bribery Skill<BR>
<BR>
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Maybe I'm missing something here but everything you describe as bribery is<BR>
very<BR>
> basic common sense to everyone I know. If  I have Streetwise I would know<BR>
the who,<BR>
> what, when, where and what of bribery. I can't see any clear and<BR>
convincing reason<BR>
> for bribery to be a unique skill.<BR>
<BR>
No, there's more to it. I used CT's Bribery to model the parody Bogartry in<BR>
a previous message concerning hippies and the Other career. Bribery lessens<BR>
the negative effects of a failed bribery attempt.<BR>
<BR>
From what I can gather, this requires:<BR>
<BR>
1.) Knowing whether or not you can bribe a given party safely, often with<BR>
little or no prior knowledge of how honest that party is. The person<BR>
offering the bribe must have the ability to read people with some degree of<BR>
effectiveness, or they simply can't be said to have the skill.<BR>
<BR>
2.) Knowing how to offer the bribe in a fashion which doesn't tip off the<BR>
party being bribed if they are honest and won't take bribes.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:19:24 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> wrote:<BR>
> I think the biggest problem with the historical credibility of the New<BR>
> Testament is the fact that most of the people with enough interest in<BR>
> it to study it's veracity also had a vested interest in proving that<BR>
veracity.<BR>
> Quite simply, most of the people who pay serious attention to the Bible<BR>
> believe that it is accurate (or at least truthful) before they even learn<BR>
> to read, much less learn how to study history. It's pretty hard for a<BR>
> skeptic to give that kind of apparent bias the benefit of the doubt.<BR>
<BR>
Your observations are right on target.  The thing that I<BR>
found amazing was the number of skeptics who, in<BR>
attempting to disprove that credibility, were converted to<BR>
true believers.  I remember one fellow I met about 20<BR>
years ago, who was an athiest.  When he went to<BR>
university, he had an athiest Greek teacher who scoffed<BR>
at the "low brow" (koine) language of the New Testement<BR>
and encouraged his fellow scoffers to translate portions<BR>
of the text to see just how childish it was.<BR>
<BR>
My friend did just that.  He chose the Gospel of John,<BR>
because it was the shortest gospel account.  According<BR>
to him, by the time he had finished translating it, he felt<BR>
that he knew Yeshua (Jesus) as well as he knew anyone<BR>
else and had come to believe that maybe there was<BR>
something to be learned from this ancient text.  The more<BR>
he translated and studied the texts, the greater his<BR>
understanding and belief became.<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav: Friction between different cultures/belief systems is always<BR>
> a useful plot device. Of course, it usually presents the players with a<BR>
> situation that must be escaped, as it can't be resolved. Unless there's<BR>
> something godlike about the PC's, they're generally not going to solve in<BR>
> a week what a planetful of intelligent (though biased) people haven't been<BR>
> able to solve in centuries.<BR>
<BR>
Like the US's intervention in Serbia.  Those people have<BR>
been fighting for centuries.  The only reason that one side<BR>
hasn't wiped the other out is that there have been outside<BR>
interventions to prevent it.  The only way that conflict will<BR>
be settled will be for them to fight to the bitter end or for<BR>
one group or the other (or both) to be relocated.  A hand<BR>
full of PC's or an army of NPC's just won't change<BR>
anything.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:19:32 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith wrote:<BR>
>  >usually presents the players with a situation that<BR>
>  >must be escaped, as it can't be resolved. Unless<BR>
>  >there's something godlike about the PC's, they're<BR>
>  >generally not going to solve in a week what a<BR>
>  >planetful of intelligent (though biased) people<BR>
>  >haven't been able to solve in centuries.<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin <tml@ksarul.com> replied:<BR>
> Then why do companies love to hire consultants (I was<BR>
> one until about three weeks ago.)?<BR>
<BR>
This is a bit of a different situation.  One man can make a<BR>
difference if the rest are willing to allow the difference to<BR>
be made.  I saw a rerun of a Star Trek Voyager episode<BR>
last night in which Capt. Janeway was allowed to judge<BR>
the Q.  Both sides agreed to allow her to judge and<BR>
agreed to be bound by her judgement.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:19:43 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> wrote:<BR>
> >I think the biggest problem with the historical credibility of the New<BR>
> >Testament is the fact that most of the people with enough interest in<BR>
> >it to study it's veracity also had a vested interest in proving that<BR>
> >veracity.<BR>
> >Quite simply, most of the people who pay serious attention to the Bible<BR>
> >believe that it is accurate (or at least truthful) before they even learn<BR>
> >to read, much less learn how to study history. It's pretty hard for a<BR>
> >skeptic to give that kind of apparent bias the benefit of the doubt.<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net> replied:<BR>
> Not entirely true. In point of fact, for about the last two centuries<BR>
> theologians have been all over the map concerning whether or not the Bible<BR>
> is accurate or truthful. The assumption that you're making is inaccurate.<BR>
> To say that over the course of 200 years everyone who's had an interest in<BR>
> studying the Bible was brainwashed before they got there is something of a<BR>
> slander.<BR>
<BR>
Jason Barnabas <cybernaut@netzero.net> added:<BR>
True, some of the best scholarship has come from those<BR>
who were biased against the book, but not dogmatic in<BR>
thier bias.  This is actually true for those scholars who<BR>
were biased toward the book as well.  Dogmatism has<BR>
no place in science (or IMHO, in religion).<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net> continued:<BR>
<snip><BR>
> Keep in mind that Jason said the Bible is *authentic*, not that it's an<BR>
> *accurate history*. There's a *very* important distinction there.<BR>
> Considering the fact that, nowadays, the majority of Biblical scholars<BR>
> don't<BR>
> actually believe it's an accurate history. There are some who feel that<BR>
> certain parts of it are accurate. There are also those who, although they<BR>
> believe that much of it portrays actual events, believe that those events<BR>
> were of a wholly rational nature.<BR>
><BR>
> Okay. Sorry 'bout the rant there.<BR>
<BR>
Also, keep in mind that Jason was talking about the New<BR>
Testement.  As to the *accuracy* of the Bible as an<BR>
historical document, the New Testement covers very little<BR>
ground (historically speaking).  Only the first 5 books<BR>
have much to do with history.  Although, there are a few<BR>
nuggets here and there amonst the remainder that point<BR>
to the then current events.<BR>
<BR>
The last I heard, with the exception of Theophilos (to<BR>
whom Luke wrote his account of the gospel and what is<BR>
now referred to as the Acts of the Apostles) every<BR>
notable name (political figures, etc.) mentioned in the<BR>
New Testement has been found in other historical<BR>
documents.<BR>
<BR>
I doubt that there will ever be an historical Theophilos<BR>
found.  While the use of terminology like "most excellent"<BR>
or "O" (a term used in formal address) would seem to<BR>
indicate that Theophilos was a dignatary of some sort or<BR>
other.  However; there is another interpretation that I think<BR>
to be more likely.<BR>
<BR>
I believe that Theophilos was not a specific person, but<BR>
rather a group of people.  In most societies, names have<BR>
everyday meanings.  Some English examples would<BR>
include names like June, Skip, Mason, Alley and<BR>
Hammer, just to name a few.  In Greek, Theophilos<BR>
means "Friend of God" or "Lover of God."  So for Luke<BR>
to write to "most excellent Theophilos" or "O Theophilos"<BR>
would be like my writing a letter in this forum that started<BR>
out something like "Dear Traveller," or if I was attempting<BR>
to indicate my respect for the members of this forum, I<BR>
might make the greeting, "Most Excellent Traveller:".<BR>
<BR>
You would understand that it was written to you.  If you<BR>
thought about it, you would also know that I was writing to<BR>
all the other travellers on this list.  That's why I believe<BR>
that Luke was writing to me (and other lovers of God),<BR>
and not to some historical figure.<BR>
<BR>
There have been several items that seemed at first blush<BR>
to contradict the New Testement (historically speaking);<BR>
however, further examination of the historical documents<BR>
have vendicated the authenticity of the New Testement<BR>
(as a historical document).  Again, I am only speaking of<BR>
the New Testement.<BR>
<BR>
When we come to the Old Testement, its authenticity as<BR>
a historical document is also well documented.  Parts of<BR>
it are quite ancient.  As to its historicity (value as history),<BR>
most archiologists that study in areas covered in it use it<BR>
as a first in text.  Over and over, the historical accuracy<BR>
of the Bible has been vindicated by those digs.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:19:53 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
> >>> May I recommend "The Unauthorized Version" by Robin Lane Fox?<BR>
> >>> A look at the bible as history, by a good historian.<BR>
><BR>
> >Or "Surspised By Joy", by C.S. Lewis, a Sci-Fi writer and infamous<BR>
atheist.<BR>
> ><BR>
> C.S. Lewis is one of the foremost Christian apologist of this century. His<BR>
> stories are seeped in Christian allegory and morality. For example in the<BR>
> Chronicles of Narnia the lion Aslan is a direct representative of Jesus<BR>
> Christ. (And yes that's probably where the name Aslan came from for the<BR>
> Traveller race.)<BR>
<BR>
It's amazing the difference that book has made in many<BR>
people's lives.  From athiest to foremost apologist of his<BR>
century, just because he took the trouble to see what all<BR>
the shouting was about.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:19:58 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Police ranks<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
> Anyhow, we *do* have Commissioners here in America. In Gotham City there's<BR>
> Commissioner Gordon (he should be hitting retirement any day now). There<BR>
was<BR>
> also a short-lived TV series on one of the major networks called "The<BR>
> Commish", which concerned itself with the exploits of a pleasant, lovable<BR>
> and awfully *round* Police Commissioner. I think that Philadelphia has a<BR>
> Commissioner, but now that I think of it, I'm not all that sure.<BR>
<BR>
As long as we are bringing up old TV series, let's not<BR>
forget _McMillian and Wife_.  Mac was a Police<BR>
Commissioner too.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:32:47 -0800<BR>
From: Richard Hough <corvus@telus.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
>The K'kree<BR>
>seem to have discovered gravitics independently in their quest to wipe<BR>
>out the race inhabiting their nearby moon or planet (I forget which<BR>
>it was).<BR>
<BR>
I thought the K'kree discovered gravitics right after defeating those <BR>
aliens, who already had gravitic technology. What a coincidence!<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
IMTU t4+ ru ge+ !3i(3i++) jt-- au+ ls- <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 23:37:46 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: power generation technologies<BR>
<BR>
  While we're on the subject (or at least close), would anyone care<BR>
to explain why SF games almost always assume that anti-matter is a<BR>
power supply system that doesn't need an ultimate source of fuel?<BR>
<BR>
  I mean that presumably there's a honking big fusion reactor (or<BR>
other cheap power source) running as cost-efficient as possible a<BR>
conversion method, but AM itself as a resource is absurd, unless<BR>
you postulate that suddenly at TL x it becomes easy to obtain (?!).<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:59:12 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
<BR>
The CD set is available on amazon.com for something like $28.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Robert Daniel <bdaniel@T-Three.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 9:27 PM<BR>
Subject: Dragon Magazine on CD<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> There was a post last week about back issues of Dragon available on CD.<BR>
> I poofed it by accident.  If anyone has the address for this I would<BR>
> appreciate it.  Thanks<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1425<BR>
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